Former MLB President Bob DuPuy

The business of sports icons with Rick Harre starts now. $5 buys you a dolphin ticket in 1966, the first one ever.

At the end of the day, you could actually buy the team if you wanted to for $5 million.

You want to buy an All-Star shortstop, it's gonna cost you $29,000.

Man, have things have changed in the last.

50 years.

At the end of the day, it was a business.

Nobody knew it.

Harvard Law School.

I wrote a thesis and I went to the professor and said, I want to do something on sports law.

He said that's great, but there is no such thing, and if there is, we don't teach it here.

I had to win a squash game for the right to do that.

And at the end of the day, we certainly have caught up.

It's a 2.6 $billion trillion business right now.

And in fact, it has grown by about 20% year over year till Rudy Gobert tests positive for COVID in March of 2020.

Industry shuts down. a million jobs lost.

Nobody knows when they're getting back, but the rebound.

In fact, the Yankees, nearly 9 to $10 billion.

George Steinbrenner 50 years ago buys the team for $10 million.

The Lakers sell for $10 billion.

The bids start in Vegas and Seattle.

For 8 or $9 billion for the NBA, it is a resilient industry and as we get back post-COVID, cooperation, survival of the fittest, shared information, and understanding this is a business that's growing faster than any other, and you've got to be on top of it to survive and thrive in the business.

Now we're heading for the new Roaring 20s, not 100 years ago after the Spanish flu, but something even bigger.

The positive aspects of the sports business permeate our own life, and as we go through the finest minds in the industry, about 100 of them agreed to be part of my book The Sports Business.

Book, you're gonna get the business from them as only they can provide it to you.

Executives, owners, players, athletes all lined up to give you their best judgment in the best business possible.

So buckle up, be ready for a show like none other.

Sports professor Ric Harrow, speak with you soon.

An icon, a legend, a friend, all of those, Bob Dupe.

He begins his legal career after Cornell Law and Dartmouth in 1973 at Foley and Lardner, a firm that he's still very actively involved with, though retired, influential in sports entertainment practice, policy, all of the major committees, a great law firm, a great individual.

92, he becomes the principal outside counsel for Major League Baseball.

98, the chief legal officer, but in 2002, in March 7th, he's appointed as the CEO of Major League Baseball, the initial CEO of Advanced Media.

The end of the day, the value of that $37 million per team.

The average franchise value nearly $3 billion.

Collective worth of $79 billion nearly $500 billion of revenue per team.

Baseball, Bob Dupe, inseparable as far as success.

Also, all of the issues as far as leadership, friendship, loyalty.

The firm, baseball, much better off because of Bob DuPay.

Here he is now.

Thank you, Bob, for doing this.

We really appreciate it.

So, it's 73 and you joined Foley, I guess as a timid first-year associate, although I can't imagine timid ever applying to you.

What are your thoughts about getting into the sports world when you had joined?

Well, you know, so much of life is serendipity, and, um, you know, I, I came to Foley as a potential litigator, and, and then did that for uh any number of years, and then in 1987, Um, you know, then owner Bud Selig of the Milwaukee Brewers and a client of Foley called and said they were not all that happy with uh how things have been going in the collusion cases, and could we get involved and uh You know, try to help out with uh resolving them.

Um, and, uh, again, Serendipity, the senior partner who I was working with on that, Dave Beckwith, was trying a lawsuit in Minneapolis, um, and I ended up carrying the laboring oar, uh, and with Chuck O'Connor at Morgan Lewis, we settled, uh, the collusion cases in, uh, on Thanksgiving morning of 1989.

Uh, and, uh, um, that sort of triggered.

I've done some work for the Brewers and, you know, a little bit of work around sports, uh, in, in Milwaukee, you know, the, the attempt to, to get a hockey team.

But not a lot.

I was uh primarily a trial lawyer.

And uh, you know, the, the collusion cases sort of started my involvement in, in MLB um when Bud became a commissioner in, in um 1992, acting commissioner in 1992, I became essentially the um Principal outside lawyer for MLB and then when he became full-time or, or he's always full-time, but then when he became permanent commissioner, or actual commissioner in 1998, he asked if I would move to New York because he wanted to stay in Milwaukee, and uh I did, and uh a short time later became president CEO. and spent, you know, what, 1112 years, 13 years in, in New York, and then went back to Foley and, you know, continued to practice sports laws.

The comment without saying is, is, you know, you got to be bright, you got to be hardworking, you got to be tenacious, but you just got to hang around.

You got to be around, right?

Yeah, and, and take advantage of the, of the opportunities when they present themselves.

When I talk to, you know, young professionals, uh, either in MLB or, or when, uh, in, in the law firms, you know, you have to try to make yourself indispensable in one way or another.

You can, you know, be the hardest worker, uh, you can.

And, um, um, become an expert, you know, in a, in some field, you know, become an expert in lunar law, uh, and just, you know, make yourself, uh, indispensable.

And most importantly, learn how to disagree without being disagreeable.

Uh, and I think that's, uh, you know, works in almost any profession.

Well, for a guy who I can personally testify, has absolutely no alive enemies anyway that I know, that is certainly wise advice.

You 18 years at the helm, kind of side helm, helm, what the, it's got to be one of the proudest accomplishments to be the initial CEO of MLB Advanced Media and the chair from 2001 to 2010.

What's the number? $37 million per team or more?

It's a big deal.

Um, yeah, it, it, it, it certainly is the thing I look back on, uh, the most fondly.

I mean, I spent basically two years working on getting the clubs to, um, agree to it, and, and working with advisors and getting it organized, and, um, the, the, the club spent about $100 million a little over $100 million in getting it formed, uh, in, in 2001.

Uh, and less than 20 years later, sold a portion of the business for over $3 billion to, uh, Disney, and, uh, so their ROI was good.

I think it is by far the best league website uh going, uh, and, you know, given the content that baseball has and provides and has been able to provide.

Uh, it, it, it was great.

And to have a board made up of, uh, owners, uh, and, and work with them for as many years as I did, um, really was a highlight.

A couple of fast-paced issues relative to where we are between now and, uh, before we even do that, uh, are you worried about December 1, 2026?

Oh, sure, sure, you have to be.

Um, there are, uh, uh, uh, a number of issues on the table, the, uh, changing, ever-changing media landscape, which, you know, has provided a bunch of new opportunity, uh, and a bunch of competitive bidders, which is great for all the major sports, uh, but also is, uh, you know, created a fair amount of confusion, and you've got baseball basically played every day for six months.

And they need to get, you know, that resolved and, and, uh, in, in some fashion or another, and, and there's been a lot of, you know, whoops about the uh labor situation and where that's gonna go, and the owners perhaps revisiting the issue of a salary cap, which has always been anathema, you know, to the players association, and obviously a change at the top of the players association, uh, over the last month.

So, um.

And, and, you know, I, I think the, the, the game is in a great spot, and the game is in a great spot competitively, but, you know, there are clubs that feel that they can't be competitive, given, you know, the spending levels of certain teams.

And so, uh, you know, that will, that will play a role as well.

So You have to be worried.

Um, you know, there hasn't been uh a significant work stoppage since '94.

Uh and um uh I, I would like to hope that, you know, Rob, who was there in '94, and who has managed the labor situation extraordinarily well since then, um um we'll be able to um find a way to, to get a deal done and keep the, keep the game on the field.

Considerable collateral damage relative to work stoppages.

Generally.

Nobody wants it, but alas, we may have it.

Let's talk about some of the issues that may precipitate it one way or another.

So the Dodgers get a guaranteed $8.35 billion.25 year deal with Charter Communications, and when you spread out those dollars versus the worst regional local TV contracts in the business, it's, it's, it's two different worlds, two different leagues.

How do you reconcile that?

It's hard, but, you know, it, it, it, it, uh, it has always been.

You know, back uh, in the 90s, when uh they ended up with the work stoppage.

Um one of the teams in New York uh had a much more significant uh hm television contract than any of the other teams.

And um there was resentment of that, there was resentment of the number of championships.

They were winning, there was resentment of, you know, the, the, uh, what they could spend on, on free agents.

And so, uh, it is a, it is a balancing act.

Um, you know, it's, it's great to have stars, uh, it's great to have, you know, signed big players and enthusias fans, um.

Uh, but, you know, there are 30 teams, and it's nice to see all of them succeed in one fashion or another.

So, it's, it's, it remains an issue, and as I mentioned before, I think it's one of the things that's going to drive the labor negotiations and the negotiations the commissioner is going to have with his owners over the next year.

And the Dodgers are not necessarily the axis of evil.

We wouldn't admit it even if it was.

But when you think about it, the, the guile involved in how you assemble a team is as important as the resources.

I mean, nobody told them to make sure that Otani's dollars were effectively deferred.

So not only do they get a generational superstar, but it doesn't impact on their current payroll, which is amazing.

Well, and they also came within one hit of losing the World Series last year to Toronto.

So, uh, uh, uh, to be able to see Otani and Betts and Freeman, uh, you know, play together, you know, it's like, uh, Rizzuto and, uh, Mantle and Berra.

I mean, it's, uh, it's fun to see, you know, the, the, the stars shine, and, uh, it's been fun to watch them in the World.

Baseball classic play for their home countries.

Sponsorships.

So Yankees signed a $25 million a year deal with a jersey patch deal with with Star.

There are other entities.

Are we over the debate about baseball players looking like NASCAR participants?

Where does the corporate logo sponsorship end, or does it matter?

Well, I think it matters, and, and, and, um, I, I don't think the uniforms will ever look like um um some of the NASCAR uh um outfits.

Um, but again, um, finding additional ways to raise revenue and not just have to raise ticket prices, uh, and put the burden on the fans, uh, is important.

And I think if you were to tell, uh, a season ticket holder or a fan, you know, your, your tickets will cost.

You know, 10 or $15 less per game, because we have this 3-inch patch, uh, on, you know, the uniform shirt, uh, 99.9% of the fans would vote for the patch.

So, it's, it's an evolutionary thing, um, and, and it would it be nice if, uh, uh, you know, everything were, were, um, non-commercial, but that's just not gonna happen, and, and it doesn't affect, frankly, the talent of the game on the field.

Expansion slash relocation.

We can talk relocation, but it looks like the A's stadium is coming out of the ground in Vegas, and it looks like, uh, God willing, the Rays get their deal done sooner than later.

So we're really talking about expansion.

What's your sense of timetable?

Um, I, I, I can't say for certain other than the fact that I think it's an important card.

Uh, in the commissioner's, uh, deck in terms of the labor negotiations.

I mean, to be able to sit, you know, with the union and say, here are 80 jobs that we can create, uh, with expansion, and we're willing to discuss expansion with you and, and agree to expansion, um, as part of making a labor deal.

Um And, uh, if in fact, the numbers that have been floated uh uh by the media, you know, something around 2 or a little over $2 billion an expansion franchise are accurate, for him to also have $4 billion in his pocket to spread around to maybe smooth out whatever is done with the broadcast uh situation.

Uh, is, is pretty attractive.

So I think, you know, over the next 18 months as the labor negotiations go on, and, uh, and those include broadcast negotiations, uh, uh, I think, uh, expansion will, will be raised as a likely uh potential solution in part.

Uh, and Rob has said that.

He'd like to have it, you know, accomplished, or at least decided by the end of his term in 2029, and, you know, that's not that far away.

Not that far away and it evolves and nobody can put the deadline on now, but it's certainly ever changing and we understand what the endgame is, which is, you know, more wrong than right normally, but maybe it's in the in the ballpark.

The collective worth of all the franchises, about $79 billion.

The Rubenstein purchase of the Orioles was $1.7 billion.

The Rays up near that as well.

The Phillies had a minority stake sold for nearly $3 billion minority, small stake, but on a pro rata basis.

Uh, how high can franchise values go?

Well, the Padres are, are on the market now, and, and I think they will be significantly higher than the numbers you just quoted.

Uh, and to be honest, I haven't given any thought to what a franchise like the Red Sox or the Cubs or the Yankees or the Dodgers would command on the open market right now.

You see the growth in, in really all of the major sports and the franchise value in all the major sports, and, and, um, again, I, I, I don't think there's any reason why, you know, that wouldn't apply to the baseball franchises as well, and You know, if, if the labor deal, um, is, they, they achieve a labor deal, particularly in a timely fashion, uh, and it accomplishes, you know, what is being written about getting accomplished, um, I, I really do think you'll see a significant jump in, in franchise values.

Uh, the pitch count, pitch clock slash.

Uh, Ghost Runner on 2nd.

Were those, uh, band-aids to appeal to the younger generation?

Are they great permanent solutions somewhere in the middle?

Well, I, I don't think they're band-aids so much.

I think uh it, it, it was recognized that, you know, the games were taking too long.

You look, you you just look at the list from, from, you know, the, the, the 70s up through, you know, the last three years, and the, the time of the game was, uh, was really an issue for the fans.

And so it was a response to the fans.

Concerns uh without really changing the game.

Uh and, and again, we talked about it during labor discussion, you know, all, all the labor negotiations, you know, from the 90s on forward.

And, you know, the, the union, you know, said that the players had their, their habits and their customs, and they like stepping out, and they like adjusting their gloves, and they liked adjusting their helmets, and this was gonna be awkward.

Uh, but it hasn't really seemed to impact the quality of play, uh, at all, other than, you know, to make it more appealing, frankly, because the game moves along.

It was really much more, uh, uh, I think, a question of pace, you know, rather than time, and, and the pace is much better now, and, and, uh, I think it's great.

So, I'll ask the normal magic wand question, except you had the ability because you held the magic wand for 18 years indirectly or directly.

You have one thing to change in Major League Baseball today.

What is it?

Um That's hard.

Um, um, you know, the, the, the continued growth, and frankly, the, you know, one of the things that baseball lost, because again of the growth of football, and the growth of basketball, and the fact That players can do one and done and go into the NBA or they can go, you know, is, um, we've lost uh, a, a, a generation largely of uh African-American minority players, and, you know, the academies have helped, the number is up, uh, but it would be nice to see, uh, more.

Um, um, minority back playing the game at, at the Major league level.

I went to, there's a tournament in, in Florida every spring, and, you know, the Andre Dawson Classic, and, and the quality of the play there is, is terrific.

And, uh, I, I'd like to see, I'd like to see that look more like it looked in the 50s and the 60s.

Just a couple more.

So, the Office of Major League Baseball, and I'm defining it deliberately, commissioner, president, staff, um, do you view that job as to protect the legacy and integrity of the game?

Is it to enhance and excite the younger generation, uh, and, or is it to increase the franchise values of the individual owners?

Those aren't mutually exclusive, you know, if, if, if, if you manage to succeed on the first two, the, the net effect will be, uh, to, to succeed on the third, you know, they, they are all critical, how to appeal to the next generation of fans.

You know, the, the types of entertainment that are now available are, are a far cry from what I had available, you know, when I was a kid, or even, you know, my children had available.

When they were growing up 30 years ago.

And, you know, how do you continue to make people love the game, and wanna see the game, and revere their heroes, and wanna collect baseball cards, uh, and wanna, you know, participate.

Um, you know, the minor leagues are such an integral part of that.

You know, minor leagues draw, you know, 35 or 40 million people a year.

Um, you know, if, if, if you Go to minor league games and see players play, uh, and they then make it in the major leagues, you again will be a fan of that player and that team for his entire career.

And so, uh, I, I think, you know, that, that's, you know, critical.

I still remember when Uh, I, I was stationed at Fort Lee, Virginia.

We used to go up to Richmond Braves games, and they had Ralph Carr, and they had Dusty Baker, and they had Darryl Evans, and um, I followed their careers for their entire careers, having watched them play in Richmond.

So, as we sit here today, what's more important to you?

The Milwaukee Brewers winning the World Series or breaking 80 consistently, or is there something I missed?

Uh, uh, I'm not gonna break 80 consistently, so, uh, I would go with the Brewers winning the World Series.

They've, they've put an amazing, for, for the size of that market, you know, uh, um, Mark Antonasio has put a terrific team on the field.

You know, it's great to see Bryce Turang play.

So well in the World Baseball Classic.

Um, and, um, you know, they, they've, they've dominated that division for the last few years, and I hope they can continue to do it, and one day, you know, hoist the World Series trophy.

Final, final, final question, what does Bob Dupe do for the next 78 years?

Um, hobble around and, and try to break 90, you know, I think that's, uh, that, that'll do.

Well, whatever it is, it is well-deserved.

Baseball has been in good hands and Bob Dupe is the best.

Sports professor Rick Harrow, speak with you soon.