Building data analytics and infrastructure for the age of digital finance with Schonda Fields, Senior Product Manager for Indexes at Talos (Formerly Coin Metrics)

Hola and welcome to The Get Down.

I'm Richie P.

In this episode of All Things Butterscotch segment with CEO and managing editor of Butterscotch Media, Cleve Messador, we will discuss crypto policy is a bipartisan issue.

And today's guest is Shonda Field.

She is director of products for indexing at Coin Metrics, and a few things that we will discuss will be her extensive background in finance, what is indexing, how it works, and how do digital.

Assets fit into the equation, and we also find out her thoughts on how we can get more women involved in the industry and so much more.

So now, let's get into all things butterscotch with Cleve Messador.

Club.

Hey there.

I love these segments.

I love to talk about what's happening in the larger ecosystem of butterscotch media, but I will say the Get Down, our podcast is my favorite component of butterscotch media.

Awesome.

So the first question of the day is, in a recent issue. of Butterscotch Media's tip sheet Choose, you penned a hot take about the importance of bipartisanship as the industry is advocating for policy and regulatory framework for blockchain and cryptocurrency that can foster innovation in the US.

What sparked this commentary?

Yeah, so the hat take, so that will be from for every issue from time to time, I will share a hat take, which is essentially my rant, right, what I think about specific issues.

And yeah, we did do one recently that called for bipartisanship because It's an election year, a presidential election year, and let's be honest, right, we are not where we want to be as an industry when it comes to regulatory policy for Web 3, for Dei.

So some are tempted, you know, on the progressive side and the conservative side, but mostly on the conservative side to try to choose one candidate over another.

In Washington politics, you do that at your peril.

For an industry that is in its inception, this is just a starting point.

We need to build friends on both sides of the aisle.

We need a policy framework that ensures that innovation can flourish.

Most people don't know this.

Nothing moves in Washington without bipartisanship.

You can't move a bill unless you have two co-signers from one party and the other, and all bills have to be passed in both chambers before it can go to the president's desk for a signature.

So I grew a concern, you know, over the last few months that a lot of conservative voices across Web 3 and Dei.

Trying to say our candidate is better for crypto.

Well, in my view, neither candidates are are better for crypto, right?

And so we need to focus on the starting point, the basics, which is building champions in Washington, figuring out who cares about the issues that we need, and for butterscotch and for the community, I'm Building, we need more policies around capital formation and financial inclusion.

We need to focus more on entrepreneurs and small businesses to make sure that there's enough resources for access to capital.

And right now we haven't had those conversations.

So I was telling people, keep your politics at bay.

Let's focus on the, the policies and not the politics, right?

No, the.

Point.

That's a great point.

You often highlight Washington progressives that they are engaged in the crypto debate to help illustrate bipartisanship.

Why have Democrats been slow to embrace the space?

Yeah, that's been very frustrating, especially for diverse innovators and creators and founders and executives in crypto.

We need more Democrats involved, but, you know, Progressives have been cruel to crypto, and you know, I understand there was a time in the 1990s when we debated the internet and Washington gave, you know, the Internet Association everything it wanted.

You know, the internet was supposed to decentralize us, and today it's centralized and in the power of, you know, a handful of men, wealthy men.

So, you know, there are some progressives who just want to slow things down, and there are also progressives out there who think, well, the predatory lenders once came to us and said, hey, we're going to disrupt finance, democratize finance, and today predatory lenders are really hurting people in communities.

So there's a high bar for decentralized finance.

But it doesn't mean that Democrats get to sit on the sidelines, particularly because, you know, we know that Black and Latino communities lead national adoption of cryptocurrency.

That means on the front lines of this industry are the working class, young people, you know, urban communities, rural communities, so they need to get engaged.

One of the reasons we created Butterscotch Media is so that we can tell the story.

The diverse and vibrant stories so that they can get out there.

So for the Black Caucus, Hispanic Caucus, Asian Pacific American Caucus, indigenous members of Congress, you know, as they're thinking about beyond the people who can afford to lobby them in Washington, we want them to have a resource where they can see dynamic people who are leveraging blockchain and cryptocurrency to solve problems.

Right.

Fair point, for sure.

So today's special guest, you know her, Shanta Fields.

Tell us about the Martha's Vineyard project that you two collaborated on last year.

Yeah, I met Shonda a few years ago and was, oh my God, blown away by the work she's doing and by her background in traditional finance, and now the work that she's doing in indexing and really merging traditional finance and cryptocurrency.

Too many of us, we really, you know, don't go that deep into financial markets and financial systems.

But you know, she's just so brilliant in terms of not just, you know, willing, being able to bridge that traditional finance with decentralized finance, but also we know, you know, digital assets are is changing, the space is changing, and she is brilliant in terms of how she keeps on the pulse of that change.

So last year we decided that we need to be where progressives are, where the Democrats who are cool to crypto, well, The listeners may not know for probably over 4 decades, maybe even 5 decades, every summer in August, black Democrats from across the political spectrum, Washington, your state level, they vacation on the vineyard in August, and the 3rd week of August is when most black political leaders show up.

That includes the Obamas.

That includes also Spike Lee that has a house in the vineyard.

So I, I work with with Tiffany Smith, who's a partner at Wilma Hill, and we were thinking about we need to do a policy brunch for these black leaders so that they can see people who look like them in this space, and I was just like, we have to have Shonda as a part of this, right, because they don't see enough women or women of color or people of color in the weeds of traditional finance.

So last year was the inaugural retreat in August.

We actually, with the help of Shonda and Tiffany and others.

We hosted the first two day retreat where we did a policy brunch with policymakers, but we also brought black founders to sit and talk about how do we build the space and create space for more founders to foster inclusion and also to, you know, recognize that we don't build in isolation.

We're not just leveraging blockchain cryptocurrency, we're adding a little AI there.

We're bringing the robotics.

We're looking at VR and AR.

So excited that, you know, Shonda is with us again.

We're planning for August.

She was so instrumental in ensuring that we had a successful event last August.

Excited to work with her again and excited that she said yes to be part of this podcast.

Amazing, dynamic duo, going to exactly where the people are so that they know what's happening, like you said, important work.

Thank you so much and thank you, Cleve.

I look forward to our next discussion about all things butterscotch.

Thank you.

Talk soon.

OK, so let's welcome our butterscotch queen, Shonda Fields.

She's director of products for indexing at Coin Metrics, which is a data warehouse for digital assets.

She's based in Brooklyn, NYC, but she'll be spending the summer this year in Arizona for the birth of her niece.

She has an extensive background in finance, including the London Stock Exchange Group, attempting to bridge the gap between traditional finance and web 3, and the Wisconsin pension funds invested in the blockchain ETF to combat inflation.

Shonda, thank you so much for being here today.

How are you?

Great great.

It's really great to be here and thank you for having me on this podcast.

And I just want to express the view, uh, the views expressed on my own and not those of Quinn Metrics.

My views are not investment advice.

Perfect.

Thank you for clarifying that.

We, we need to make sure that that is said.

So tell us about your extensive background in finance.

Yeah, so I started my interest in finance in Wall Street, you know, at 16.

And it was an interesting journey.

My father had a Wall Street Journal.

I started reading it, and then I kind of got excited about it.

So I just would read the journal, write down in my little book where the stocks were trading, the highs and lows, and then, you know, I opened up a brokerage account, and then what was funny, you know, I'm dating myself.

I would go to the pay phone in high school and check the prices of where the stocks are trading during lunch hour, and my friends were like, what the heck are you doing?

So that's how I started, and then after that bug, I just knew I wanted to be a part of the industry in some capacity.

And, you know, my journey in this space has not been one that's been linear.

I started in technology, then I moved into the trading desk, and now here I'm in in the world of data and indexing in this world of web 3.

Amazing.

It's crazy that, I mean, you, you said you dated yourself, those that are the younger folks that are watching or listening, a pay phone.

I was part of that generation.

I don't think you understand the struggle.

So the fact that you were into this at a young age and then you also had to go to a pay.

It's a physical phone, kids.

It's a physical phone.

You had to put money, you had to put coins in.

I mean, we're talking old school technology that the kids today have no idea.

You know, they have no idea.

It's interesting because I was sharing my story with a group of people that I'm doing a class with, and when they asked me like, how did you track the stocks?

What platform were you using?

And I said, it was a newspaper, you know.

Physical.

Exactly, so, yeah.

Wow, that's amazing.

Let's discuss your journey, you know, your non-linear career path, and now you're, let's discuss your journey into crypto and how that aspect of your career has evolved.

So that was really interesting for me because I actually had a friend of mine reach out and she was just like, you know, you gotta buy Bitcoin.

And I'm like, what is it?

Why do I need to buy it, you know, I'm coming from this traditional lens background, and she was just like, you just gotta buy it.

And I was like, I'm very logical.

I was like, that doesn't make sense to me.

I just have to buy something.

And then I took my time, so I started learning about blockchain, reading the white paper, having conversations, you know, actually speaking to people who are in the space, in traditional finance, who were getting involved in the space, and really wanted to understand what's making this so unique, what is different about it, and it it piqued my interest.

And you know I've had a long career in financial services and you know, definitely blessed for that and so when I had the opportunity to join Coin Metrics, as you mentioned, you know, digital asset provider, our, our slogan is that we put truth to work, we're the source of truth for data.

And I love learning about data, learning about new things, and it was just an opportunity for me to come full circle, being a part of a traditional finance, but here we are, an opportunity for me to move into this new asset class and to be at the beginning of that.

And then taking my knowledge and expertise and working with an organization like Coin Metrics to bridge that gap.

Right.

And do you feel because you came from such an extensive financial background, that your brain already kind of worked that way?

Was that a a a benefit to come from that world, so that you were able to understand the concepts?

That's a really good question, and I would say that my brain worked from the lens of traditional finance.

My brain has learned to work.

In this digital asset space because there were different terms that were getting thrown around.

I'm like, what the heck are they talking about, you know, and then when I was, you know, speak to like someone had mentioned about we were in a conversation, a group of traditional people, and they were saying like these gas fees, and this guy was like, gas fees is like, you know, your commission, you know, you're paying commission, you gotta, and so it was, so it was really for me it was, it has and still is a learning curve, but I feel that.

It supports me to be in the space of both and, OK.

So traditional lens, I understand what traditional firms are looking for, but at the same time, I am honored to be able to work with a group of people who have an extensive knowledge in the digital asset space that allows me to start learning to speak both languages, and I'm hopefully soon they're just gonna merge into one.

That's how.

You know, goal, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're like a, I'd say like a translator, like you said you like to, you be a, a bridge builder, right?

You're bridging the gap, but because you, you know, it's like bringing terms that people can relate to and methods and processes and stuff, and I, I think that's fantastic that, you know, you're You're here in this traditional finance world, and you're over here, so you can be like, hey, this is what we're trying to say over here and this is what, so I, I, I love that you, you are the bridge.

Is there key milestones and accomplishments that you want to spotlight or brag about since, you know, you're navigating these two worlds?

Yes, definitely two worlds.

I definitely get to brag about the fact that I completed a 10 month Kundalini yoga program and I actually just graduated.

Thank you.

I graduated this past weekend, and the reason that I'm excited about that, because in the midst of all of that.

I was also leading our firm through 2 audits and.

That was, it was a big lift.

It was a big lift as an organization.

It was a big lift for my team.

It was a bit everyone.

It was a big lift.

But here I was, you know, doing two things that I loved and being stretched in so many different directions.

But at the same time, once I completed it, it was just amazing.

And for me personally, I think that the Kundalini teacher training that I was involved in allowed me to actually to balance and have both ends.

And making it win-win for me.

I love that because I don't think that we hear that enough where you think of people in finance that they're just, but here you are getting that balance and showing that that helped you stretch in so many different ways, right?

Like your mind and and and beyond that so that you can handle an audit of any sort seems stressful.

Stressful as anything, the fact that, you know, you had this balance, something else to focus and concentrate on, and learning and another goal, another end place to be at simultaneously, I could see how you made that a win-win.

Fantastic.

Congratulations.

I appreciate that.

And like I said, and I, I honestly said I truly appreciate audits.

I did not have an appreciation for an audit until I was in the middle of two of them, and I was like, wow, you know, it made me a better leader and, and I think it also, you know, definitely helped our organization and our index product.

Wow, amazing.

Speaking of indexing, what is indexing and how does it work?

How do digital assets fit into that equation?

Yeah, that's a really great question.

And uh I was actually trying to explain it to my mother, who's 86, this weekend, and, you know, I would think.

Simply put, you can think of an index as something that captures the performance of something into one number.

So for example, a group of companies, and you have the S&P 500, you have 500 companies, and an index captures the price of those 500 companies into one number, right?

Then how is this index being used?

The index is being used to measure a portfolio, uh, a stock portfolio, let's let's stay in line with the S&P 500, OK?

So you would have an index that would measure the performance of a mutual fund.

And so what we have seen over the years is that we have seen the explosion of indexing, and that's due to the creation of exchange traded funds.

And what an exchange traded fund does, does, it actually gives you exposure.

To the underlying index.

So instead of buying the 500 companies, you can just buy an exchange traded fund.

That exchange traded fund follows the movement of the index.

So, you know, if the index goes up 1, then your ETF should go up 1 point, and that's how you kind of look at it.

And now the next question you ask is about where does all of this fit into the digital asset space.

So this is really exciting because You know, I'm new to the space, but, you know, I hear the stories of people waiting years and years and years to get a a traditional type product into the digital asset space.

So in January, Of this year, we saw various uh Bitcoin ETFs that were launched.

Again, these are exchange traded funds, and what they did is they provided exposure to Bitcoin.

And for me, I believe that this is exciting because like I said, I was trying to explain to my mother exactly what an index she's tries to, you know, she's on Google and she's, you know, learned about Bitcoin and she was just like, I want some Bitcoin.

I wanna purchase some Bitcoin.

I was like, OK, mom, it's not that simple.

But then, you know, when I sat down with her and I said, you can now buy an ETF and she goes, Oh, that's something I can put in my portfolio.

So she got.

And so for her, because she's never gonna go to a venue and buy Bitcoin, but it was an opportunity for my mother who's interested to say, let me get a little exposure in this and look at an ETF.

So that's how I think, you know, it really kind of all comes together.

I love that, and, uh, you know, kudos to your mama for, for being in her 80s and learning all these new things and having you as a daughter exposing her and her being able to Google and, and know what to do, like that's fantastic, right?

That's a win.

And speaking of women and and women of color struggle in this industry that you're in, that you've been in since, you know, pay phones uh in the world, what has been your experience in the industry?

Yeah, so that's a very good question because I've had You know, different experiences.

So, when I first started my career, I experience bias.

You know, I, I definitely did, and I share with people that a client once questioned me why I was even working on the trading desk.

And why I was not at home having children.

So this is a client that I'm, you know, having dinner with, and I'm like, whoa.

And I was taken aback by that statement, and the younger me was just like, OK, you know, and really didn't know how to respond.

Like I was just like, wow.

And then as I have grown.

I definitely understand that that statement came from that individual's belief, his worldview, and, you know, and individuals' worldviews are shaped by so many different things.

So it doesn't make it right, it's just, you know, that's what they are, that's their worldview, and this is why.

The industry needs more women and more women of color in this space because it's a step in the right direction for a more diverse and inclusive workspace, OK, so that's what I'm gonna say in general, finance, traditional finance in the digital asset space.

I've experienced quite a few women in the space, not enough, but quite a few.

And my experience has been different because I have actually, I actually feel like I have a cohort of women who are in this space, who have come from the traditional space and kind of experienced some of the same things that I have experienced.

So we're a close knit family wanting to share information.

And I truly believe that in this space, because it's a new asset class, the space is looking for people who want to move the conversation forward and to help move the the ecosystem further along.

And that has been my experience, and I, and I'm definitely excited about that because there's so many women who have come into my life that I'm like, wow, I can use as a sounding board.

I can get insight.

Go, Shawna, go read this book, go look at this podcast, let's meet for coffee, let's have a conversation, and it's really great.

And I, and then I can also say that there's been a lot of men from a lot of men.

I'm like, OK, I don't understand this concept.

Can we have a call?

Sure, let's have a call.

Shonda, here's this paper, let, you know, let me explain this to you, and that is just a group of people I feel who are working to foster the knowledge for everyone because the bigger vision is how do we move this further along this conversation so we can have an opportunity for, you know, the potential of more equity inclusion for everyone.

I think that's, that's what's really exciting for me.

Right, I totally understand being in this space, I've seen that, and I'm glad to hear it's not just me.

I've talked to a lot of different women and people of color that mentioned that, that that it's been to be supported in something so new.

For me personally, I feel like I can learn and grow so much quicker at a different type of pace because you, like you said, you have the sounding boards of different people, and that, you know, we have these male allies in the space that are just like, hey, Let's grow together.

Like, let me share this information.

Other women, hey, you're new.

I was new once too.

Let me share this information.

Let me, like, help you, maybe avoid some of the things that I had to run into that, like, it's a, for me, it's, it's been a more supportive in a weird way, and I come from like art and and music and entertainment industry, right, where there's a few of us in there as well, but here it's just like, there's like a a camaraderie that's a little different, a little infectious, would you say?

I agree, 100%, right?

Yes, yes.

So what are you most excited about within the industry right now?

I mean, last week, what you mentioned at the top of the call is like Wisconsin Investment Board.

They're a state agency that manages retirement.

What did they do?

They invested, you know, approximately 100 million into the Black Rock Bitcoin ETF.

How cool is that?

Right, OK, because you don't think about it, you have public pensioners.

Who are now getting exposure to Bitcoin, which could potentially support the long term performance of their underlying portfolio, right?

That's what it's about, and that to me is exciting for because you, you're actually seeing the bridge and you're seeing the potential of how it can support people for their long term financial growth.

Yes.

No, I, I love how you frame that.

We, we're seeing it in use, actual use, right?

You see the bridge, people have been talking about it, and then it's in action, and you actually see the bridge and can talk to people on both sides of the bridges, you know, to see their Experience and, and see, uh, like you mentioned, throughout the long-term impact of all of these things that we're discussing today.

So, what is your call to action?

What do you want those that are watching or listening to consider?

Be intentional.

About learning new things and then putting it into practice, not just reading about it, but putting it into practice, build relationships.

Taking yourself out of your comfort zone, you know, again, my career, it was everything that's fostered in my career has been relationships from the first opportunity on the trading desk, from the conversation to move into indexing and data to the opportunity at Coin Metrics.

So, getting yourself out of your comfort zone, building relationships, and then finally, I, I invite everyone to practice self-care.

That those are my call to action.

Love that.

And, and I think, you know, if you look at any industry that you're in, but especially this one, relationships are key.

So you said to be authentic because people read that, you're in this any space for any amount of time.

If you're just trying to be transactional in a relationship, after a while, I mean, it might take some people a little bit longer to see that, but people can see it and feel it, it's super transparent and to be in an industry.

Of any sort, long term, you need to have these authentic relationships and I love to, you talked about self-care, but you know, we heard earlier in the conversation, you practice it.

I mean, you, you just graduated with, with the yoga training and my leadership coach talks about that growth edge where you push yourself and you challenge yourself to where it's too tight, but you're there and you're learning the most, and I feel like that's exactly what you did.

Couple of audits here, training over here, you're pushing yourself to that growth edge.

You said it was a win-win, but I think it's a win for everyone in your orbit, in your atmosphere.

So, thank you so much for that.

What is a fun fact that most people don't know about you?

A fun fact, I, uh, uh, that I was going to sign up to be a firewalker trainer where people walk across the hot coals.

Wow.

I went to some of it, and I remember the first time I did it, and it was quite like, oh well, this is kind of cool, you know, but then COVID happened and I, you know, but that, that's a fun fact.

I never followed through it, but that was something that I thought about.

Wow, well, there's time, right?

That that maybe next time we talk to you, be like, got my training, my, I'm the.

That's amazing.

Did it hurt when you did it?

It didn't hurt.

It did not hurt when I walked across the first time, I will say is that I didn't listen to the instructions because you were supposed to wipe your feet, and I was just so excited that I did it, and there was a little piece of coal in between my toes.

So that had, you know, but, you know, and my friends were like, but you didn't listen.

You gotta follow directions.

You you didn't listen, you know, I had done it before, and I was just, you know, excited, but like you didn't listen.

That's why you have.

Lesson learned, lesson learned, wipe your feet, wipe your feet.

So let the people know how they can contact you, reach you, see all the things that you're up to.

Definitely, you can, you can definitely find me on LinkedIn, Shonda Fields, and then you can also find me on Twitter at F_Shonda.

And there you go.

That's how you can call awesome.

Well, Muchisima gracia, Shonda for joining us, sharing your story and your valuable insights.

We really appreciate you.

I appreciate you for having me.

Thank you so much.

Thank you to our butterscotch queens and kings for joining us today.

Our next guest will be Corey JLC Jaco, who is an indigenous hip hop musician and NFT artist.

Thank you.